Teresa & Joe Giudice Plead Not Guilty, Trial Begins October 8; Plans To Appear On WWHL After Season Finale?

August 14, 2013 | By | 312 Replies Continue Reading

TeresaJoeCourt

Real Housewives of New Jersey stars Teresa and Joe Giudice have officially been arraigned in court today, following their 39 count indictment. The couple arrived at the Newark court surrounded by their legal team and security at around 2:30 p.m. for the hearing that lasted no more than 5 minutes.

HLN reports that Teresa and Joe entered not-guilty pleas and their trial start date has been scheduled for October 8! Miles Feinstein, Joe’s lawyer, spoke and said that despite rumors, Joe will not take the fall for him and Teresa, and that neither will be testifying against each other.

Their lawyers also told reporters, “The couple is also planning to appear on Bravo’s live after show following the final episode of ‘The Real Housewives of New Jersey.’” Presumably Watch What Happens Live? Or the reunion?

The New York Daily News also reports on Joe Giudice’s lack of US citizenship. His lawyer tells them, “Joe didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen. The rest of his family is. Had he know and applied for citizenship he certainly would have gotten it.” Umm, what?!

Keep checking back to this post for further details that may emerge later today!

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Category: RHONJ, Teresa Giudice

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  1. Debs says:

    Why would they waste time and money by pleading NOT GUILTY?!?!?! They need to for once be honest, and for once own up to what they have done! Feds go easier on people who are honest!

    • jpg says:

      You would think so.

      But not the Giudices. I’m sure they’ll take the plea.

      • Nonna Gabi says:

        Innocent until proven guilty. All your negativity won’t change that.

        • jpg says:

          And yourMayberry optimism won’t change the fact that these two people are in some DEEP DEEP shit.

        • DebG says:

          Nonna, so true, no matter who it is that is the truth innocent till proven guilty!! I also believe that Joe thought he was a citizen.

          • jpg says:

            I have a bridge I’d like to sell you.

          • Aloicious says:

            DebG, I am generally Team Teresa but I have to say that I don’t think there’s anyway he didn’t know that he wasn’t a citizen. I know many permanent residents, green card holders, etc and there is just no way you don’t know. Just one example- Every international vacation he’s been on, when re-entering the US he would have to show his green card or get a visa to enter. He would also have to go through different customs lines than US passport holders (citizens)…

          • SatchesofGold says:

            http://www.ibtimes.com/teresa-joe-giudice-plead-not-guilty-will-rhonj-stars-go-prison-50-years-photos-1386075

            “There’s been a rumor floating around the Web that Teresa could avoid time in the slammer if she divorced Joe and testified against him, but Mendez said that wouldn’t help her if she’s found guilty. “She’s been charged with conspiracy,” he said. They are accused of agreeing to commit fraud, so spousal privilege would extend even through a divorce since they were together at the time.

            Teresa won’t go down just because of her husband; that is if the government can prove she had intent to commit fraud. “Intent is a key element the government has to prove beyond reasonable doubt to convict someone,” the legal expert stated.

            It was recently revealed that Joe is not a U.S. citizen, which could end up with him being deported back to Italy, Mendez said.”

            Joe Guidice every time he came back to the country had had to enter through different lanes and go into the immigration office to get his Italian passport stamped while his wife and kids did not. If he had dual citizenship he could have had an American passport that would ad avoided him the hassle, he definitely knew that he was not an American citizen and I do believe that he intentionally never changed his status because he had intentions of fleeing the country when he got caught, he just never expected to become this famous so fleeing the country now would not be possible.

        • whois_zachary says:

          Nonna, I suggest you re-watch season 1….

          Has everyone forgotten Teresa paid for THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS IN FURNITURE WITH CASH?!?! Juicy and Teresa have been SHADY since the first episode. I would possibly give them the benefit of the doubt if they had not painted such a lovely (sarcasm) picture for us all. Also, I still haven’t heard Teresa spell “napalm” so it seems like she’s LYING about having a ghostwriter… Wonder what else she’s lying about?

          FAKE FAKE FAKE

          DISCLAIMER FOR THE HATERS: I don’t like a single one of these Jersey women. Most of the things I just said about Teresa and Juicy, I would say about the rest of this tacky lot if they were indicted on THIRTY NINE counts of fraud when all they do on this show is spend money without a care in the world. Melissa is phony and conniving. Kathy is phony and boring. Jacqueline is phony and a walking, tweeting insecurity. Caroline is phony and a know-it-all. Teresa is phony and cannot accept responsibility for anything. All of these women are MESSES who only know how to FRONT and FIGHT. This is why we watch, and why we love them, but who would want to actually be friends with any of these clowns?

          Long winded, I apologize, but I just can’t with all these “Everyone is evil, and Teresa is an angel!” posts. Let’s not kid ourselves by pretending any of this bunch is capable of being “the good guy”.

          • bahw says:

            Of course you are entitled to your own opinion. I do disagree on your Teresa pov but I’m not going to argue or try to pursuade you, it wont change your pov. However I will say something on points that you had made on two things specificly.
            One; ghost writer, just because she doesn’t spell “napalm” doesn’t prove anything. Anyone who has been thru school has had to write term papers at some point and know how to use a thesaurus or dictionary. Just because you use it once in your written work doesn’t mean you will retain it forever in your memory.
            Two: I have seen Teresa apologize and take responsibility for the things she has done or was a part of. But she will not take responsibility or apologize for those things she hasn’t. For example she told the other ladies what she had “heard” about Melissa, she did not say she was a stripper she said she “heard” she was a stripped. She told her brother people were telling her that Melissa would leave him for a richer man if one came along, this did not come from her but she did feel the need to pass this information along to her brother. Once again she was the bad guy, the instigator. Then her SIL bff and (penny and others) have come to Teresa to tell her that her SIL has cheated on her brother. Did she start the rumor? No, and she didn’t even go to him this time because they would still blame her for saying it. Which they did. Yet they also got pissed off at her for not telling them. why should she, look where it got her before. Jaq couldn’t even tell her what she did to make her so mad. Her answer was that Teresa was said she should worry about her son more and tweet less about her. Which happened after the big blow out. Oh wait she did say she didn’t “feel” appreciated enough. Wow if that is the expected repercussions for not appreciating enough then we are all in trouble. Still Jaq did not apologize to Teresa either only to Joe.
            Melissa and Joe have done exactly what they accuse Teresa of doing and tell her to get over it. And the rumors and accusations about T and J Guidice have come directly from her brother and SIL, directly from their mouths. And Kathy and Richie well they play apology durring filming but she has her backhanded comments, where shy tries to fly under the radar as a sweet lady,but it getting more obvious her jealousy of Teresa and carolines popularity. She is the jealous one and always pulls the “I’m left out/neglected” card.

      • Silvana says:

        Bullshit the Feds don’t give a fuck if you plead innocent or guilty they will go just as hard either way so they might as well plead not guilty and come across as not thinking they have done anything wrong from the get go!!

    • Divorce says:

      If you’re not guilty and the constitution is designed to protect the rights of all citizens, why would she. I’m also shocked that the case was set this early. You’re sure it’s not a pre-trial hearing. Are most federal cases sent to trial this quick.

      • LOLA says:

        Sometimes, yes. A plea hearing usually happens – then depending on the plea (guilty or not guilty), they set the next court date – either a sentencing hearing (guilty) or a trial (not guilty). But yes, once you enter a plea, the next court date comes pretty quickly.

    • The FEDS says:

      Its amazimg how people have convicted the giudices already. convinced theyre going to prison for 50 years?

      Using Lauren hill (6 minor children) ) and Wesley snipes as examples is ridiculous. every single federal case is different.I mean no disrespect, but I recommend you dig deeper,. look beyond the media headline. ive studied various cases for various reasons.

      Lauren hill could not pay her debts (not saying that Teresa can) she went to the media claiming she had made full restitution when she had NOT. Lauren hill made nearly 600 million dollars and claimed slavery as her reasoning behind tax evasion. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2013/05/06/lauryn-hill-draws-prison-sentence-for-tax-evasion/. This case is not similar to Teresa’s. it has some similar points but not enough to say without a doubt she is going to prison.

      Wesley snipes. Truly, he is more similar to the giudice in some aspects in which I will explain. Wesley snipes pleaded his case and worked hard to get things dropped. In that he is similar to the giudice family. He initially had close to the amount of counts joe and Teresa have. He ended pleading guilty to one single charge. One ! He committed FRAUD and conspired to defraud the goverment. That’s a bigger crime than the GIUDICES. he subscribed to the belief that he did not have to pay taxes at all. 38 million dollars he worked hard to ensure the goverment didn’t get a penny. Not only that, he fraudulently RECIEVED a 7-14 MILLION dollar REFUND FROM HIS FRAUDULANT TAX RETURNS! He then moved 14 MILLION dollars to off shore accounts to avoid being taxed by the goverment. That is nothing near the GIUDICES. His crimes were much much WORSE.
      http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/business/14tax.html?_r=0

      That being said, Wesley snipes eventually plead guilty to ONE charge in which he served his sentence for.

      Read more here and let me know if you have changed your opinion on how you view the giudice case. I’d also like to add that joe giudice not being an American citizen will actually work to his defense. Note wesely snipes used this defense but failed because he actually was a US citizen. Joe giudice is not a citizen. The case is not as cut and dry as some may believe.

      On October 12, 2006, Wesley Snipes, Eddie Ray Kahn, and Douglas P. Rosile were charged with one count of conspiring to defraud the United States and one count of knowingly making or aiding and abetting the making of a false and fraudulent claim for payment against the United States. Snipes was also charged with six counts of willfully failing to file federal income tax returns by their filing dates.[14] The conspiracy charge against Snipes included allegations that he filed a false amended return, including a false tax refund claim of over US$4 million for the year 1996, and a false amended return, including a false tax refund claim of over US$7.3 million for the year 1997. The government alleged that Snipes attempted to obtain fraudulent tax refunds using a tax protester theory called the “861 argument” (essentially, an argument that the domestic income of U.S. citizens and residents is not taxable). The government also charged that Snipes sent three worthless, fictitious “bills of exchange” for $14 million to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS).[15]
      The government also charged that Snipes failed to file tax returns for the years 1999 through 2004.
      In a December 4, 2006, letter from Snipes in response to his indictment, he declared himself “a non-resident alien” of the United States; in reality, Snipes is a U.S. born citizen.[16] Snipes said he was being made an example of and was unfairly targeted by prosecutors because of his fame in connection with the federal tax fraud investigation.
      On February 1, 2008, Snipes was acquitted on the felony count of conspiracy to defraud the government and on the felony count of filing a false claim with the government. He was, however, found guilty on three misdemeanor counts of failing to file federal income tax returns (and acquitted on three other “failure to file” charges). His co-defendants, Douglas P. Rosile and Eddie Ray Kahn, were convicted on the conspiracy and false claim charges in connection with the income tax refund claims filed for Snipes.[17][18]
      On April 24, 2008, Snipes was sentenced to three years in prison for willful failure to file federal income tax returns under 26 U.S.C. § 7203.[19][20][21] Kahn was sentenced to 10 years in prison and Rosile was sentenced to four and half years in prison.[22] The United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit affirmed Snipes’s convictions in a 35-page decision issued on July 16, 2010.[23][24][25] Snipes reported to federal prison on December 9, 2010, to begin his three-year sentence,[26][27] and was held at McKean Federal Correctional Institution, a federal prison in Pennsylvania,[28] until he was released on Tuesday, April 2, 2013.[29] In the interim, on June 6, 2011, the United States Supreme Court declined to hear Snipes’ appeal.[30][31][32]

      • MissVigyal says:

        This is all true and thank you for the info. What do you make of fat Joe getting four months though? He just got sentanced to four months federal prison for failure to pay taxes after he paid them all back and the fines! I agree with what your saying and we will have to see how this pans out. I hope the best for them and have a feeling most counts will be dropped.

        • The FEDS says:

          I haven’t looked into fat joes case. My guess is there is more to the story than meets the eye. Every case is so different in federal situations. Look at Mary J blind, her tax issues which included fleecing her own charity. Nicolas cage even Gary busey lol Federal cases are so off the charts it’s difficult to predict what could happen. It’s all a guessing game.

      • Moe says:

        @THE FEDS Good job everyone lies about how much they make to get a loan!

        • jpg says:

          False. There are plenty of honest people who have no desire to lie, cheat and steal to obtain what they cannot possibly pay for.

          • Nonna Gabi says:

            You mean like getting a construction loan and then pretending you own the spec house?

          • jpg says:

            I was referring to myself. Can you think of anything else besides deflection?

            No. No you can’t. As you prove time and again.

          • Nonna Gabi says:

            Not deflecting. Trying to see why you are one dimensional. You just have hate. There is no discussion with you. If we don’t agree, then we are delusional. If we give examples then we deflect. But my question now is, why ate you not railing against what Joe and Mel did?

          • The FEDS says:

            I believe moe was being a smart ass. No one believes its ok to submit fake W2s, not file taxes or commit wire fraud. You’re so mixed up with team such and such VS team yahoo that you’re attacking people who are making light comments. If I didn’t know better i may believe you are the one facing federal charges.

            What joe and Teresa have done is wrong. They know they’re wrong and they’re facing the charges. There are no Casey Anthony cases in federal court. So why all the fuss? You and I both know they will pay for what they’ve done. for some reason that is not enough for you. You feel it neccicary to be present for each story posted here and attack anyone who shows concern or sympathy for this couple. Maybe you have an agenda here? If that is the case I fear you will be disappointed in the outcome of this legal case.

          • whois_zachary says:

            +1 for the deflection comment, jpg. Took the words right out of my mouth.

        • Salazar says:

          What ? Everyone lies to get loans ,you are nuts no they do not ! And I’m sure no one files tax returns ,gives banks fake paystubs and W2 s also… I honestly can not believe someone would make a statement like that

          • The FEDS says:

            Grow up

          • Salazar says:

            Are you serious ? Telling me to grow up ,you should have to pay for the full page “articles” you post on here , you grow up and find a hobby ,get a job , enjoy the outdoors ,you waste far too much of your time trying to prove these two innocent

        • I Can Read Good says:

          That is NOT true. So sick of the use of “everyone”.

        • BionicMe says:

          No “everyone” but millions of people in the US did and go a little help from loan officers to do so. That simple.

          • Jennifer says:

            That is one of the reasons we had the Great Depression of 2009. The stated income loans were the culprit.

          • bahw says:

            I for one do NOT think everyone was a bad person that took out stated income loans. The bad guy in the bad stated income loans were the mortgage lenders. Period.

            We had a stated income loan, we were approved, and got a piggy back loan. One lg loan and one small loan. We were told in two years time we could refinance no problem and consolidate them into one. We did not lie about anything. We had to turn in our bank statements personal and business bank statements.

            With the stated income loans it allowed us to get a home. With a small business we had so many writeoffs that our taxes made it seem we were in poverty. But we can’t help what we can or have to do, and were told because it was a young company that new equipment write off would go down as the years went on, like depriciate. However the mortgage lenders wanted us to get a$400,000 loan, the amt of deposits determined we could afford this. WRONG!! We were not stupid, we, as the consumer and one responsible for payimg back the loan, were the ONLY ones taking into account the company expenses and living expenses. They just wanted their commission. All of those people did not care about the risks. Once they had their money they were done.
            That amt of a house where we live is considered a mansion. We knew that was not where we were at or an amt we could pay every month. We determined on our own with a profit and loss sheet what we could afford for a monthly pmt and live comfortably and we settled on a $180,000 loan.

            They also wanted my husband to say I was employed by him, which they said less risk ment less interest. No we did not do that. They wanted us to get more money to pay for closing cost and to have an extra $10,000 to help furnish our new home. BS they needed us to get a $200,000 for some reason I think %of comission went up with every $100,000. Luckily my grandmother worked in the business and explained many yhings to me. It was our first loan ever, we have never even had credit cards, EVER! However the laws changed because of the “criminal” behavior encouraged by these mortgage lenders. If we had done any of the liing they were not responsible for that, they didnt take the fall, the consumer did. We all took the fall for them.

            Anyways my point is that mortgage lenders did lie they encouraged this with the self employed especially And the big companies knew exactly what they were doing they trained their employees to do this. They gave incentives but did not put in writing the illegal stuff but their companies had plenty of seminars to train employees to break the law because in stated income they felt thwy could get away woth it.

            The mortgage lenders, the people we dealt with directly, were just people hired off the street and trained/told what paper work to give, what to push, and convince these people to sign over every bit of what they make amd then some just to get the loan done. When these people walked out the door they no longer had any money left after the cost of monthly mortgage. No other bills or expenses were able tobe afforded, the mortgage took up every penny they made. The big comp made sure of this. And so people had to decide, feed themselves and their kids or pay their mortgage.

            AND YES this did happen, I know many people hired by rhese companies that told me this.

      • DebG says:

        The Feds thanks for the information.

      • SaltySulk says:

        Hi The FEDS, I am Australian and not familiar at all with US financial law. Some weeks ago I saw a documentary about the GFC and the role of the US financial system within that. It was talking about how many Americans lost their homes as they were no longer able to meet their mortgage commitments…and loan agents for various banks were talking on camera and basically stating that pre-GFC they were aiming to hand out as many loans as possible, and thus were instructed to skim over employment details provided by applicants, as well as other pertinent information. I can imagine that in that financial environment, it would be tempting to fudge details, if you thought that authorities were not checking thoroughly – especially if you were the…errr…”acquisitive” type who wanted to live large and you had yourself convinced you would pull off some great business venture and easily pay the money back. Not making excuses (I support Teresa insofar as I do not condone the bullying she was subjected to by her castmates), it just sounds like the environment was conducive to the Giudices actions – so maybe they had themselves convinced that they would be able to pay it all back and then there was the crisis – and now there is a big tightening up on this sort of activity. So I found your commentary above interesting :-)

        • The FEDS says:

          SaltySulk, this is true. You’ve seen the business side of things. The homeowner side rarely makes headlines. (This is not about the guidice financial issues) the most horrible thing to have happened during the housing market bubble were the small fish. It was far more than overlooking people’s job history. Lenders and realtors lured people in who were not financially smart. People who dd not understand what they were getting into.

          Imagine an apartment complex full of working class families. A builder/realtor goes door to door with flyers and notices telling people “you can own your own brand new home for the same monthly payment you’re paying for this apartment” poor, uneducated, elderly, young lots of people fell for this. They lure them in, show them beautiful homes and work out the numbers showing these people how their payments will be equal or less tHan what they’re paying for their current apartment. Who wouldn’t want that? The problem was, these people were being qualified via 2/1 buy down mortgages. Lenders were not explaining that over the next 2-3 years their payments would go up until it halted at the actual fixed rate.

          “The 2/1 Buy Down Mortgage allows the borrower to qualify at below market rates so they can borrow more. The initial starting interest rate increases by 1% at the end of the first year and adjusts again by another 1% at the end of the second year. It then remains at a fixed interest rate for the remainder of”

          People were jumping all over this, banks were approving people who never should have qualified. The new home owners were moving into their newly built homes paying (for example) 700-750 a month. Exactly what they were paying for their apartments. Year 1 at 750.00 year 2 they were surprised when their payments bumped to 850.00. People began to struggle. Year 3 they bumped from 850 a month to 1000.00 a month. Most of the owners did not make enough to pay 1000.00 a month in mortgage payments. They had no clue this was to be there set payments. They were lied to, misled. They didn’t read the paperwork, didnt understand the paperwork. Now, add in that it takes 1-2 years to go through foreclosure. By now its 5 years after they qualified for their mortgage. By the time the goverment caught on to what was going on the market was destroyed. You could drive through new neighborhoods and 2 out of 3 homes were vacant and bank owned foreclousers. It was devastating to the market and no doubt to the people who didnt understand what they were getting into. These people lost their homes, some uneducated and also didnt understand the foreclosure process would be locked out of their homes and forced to leave all their belongings in the home. They lost everything. Then, they were still on the hook for the mortgage they signed for. With the market flooded with foreclosure a auctioned homes were selling at pennies on the dollar. Leaving the homeowners in massive debt to lenders.

          Terrible and unethical practice that destroyed lives, families, markets. Made people desperate.

          • SaltySulk says:

            My God The FEDS that is absolutely terrible. You can understand people wanting to get out of their little apartments especially if it was presented to them as costing them no extra. That is beyond shameful and amounts to nothing better than mugging people for their money. And having such financial devastation wreaked upon their lives would be something that people of few resources and low adaptive ability would never never recover from – and the knock-on social effects upon their children could never be quantified. Was anyone high up the bank chain of command ever prosecuted for those dealings? And thank you for filling me in. Sometimes it is easy to sit back and say “well people shouldn’t borrow beyond their means, that is why they lose their houses” but as you pointed out, there are other factors at play here – they were duped into borrowing beyond their means and it would be an easy dupe because there was an (illusion?) or prosperity before all that went down.

          • Amelia James says:

            Everything you said is fact, the banks had bad policies that devastated lives. Those banks NEVER should have been bailed out, this is what happens in a free market, you do stupid things your company fails. You should not screw up and be rewarded with billions in bailout money. That pissed me off.

            However your most glaring omission was the part of personal responsibility. Everyone always wants to shift all of the blame on the banks and the gov but no one ever wants to take even a little personal responsibility for anything they do. The banks forced (luring you in with what appears to be a good deal is not forcing) no one to take these stupid loans, nor is the bank responsible because people who jumped at these loans took no time to read what the hell they were signing. You are responsible for your own decisions the onus is on you to read and understand what you are signing, it is on you to understand the particulars of the mortgage you are getting.

            The 2/1 Buy Down Mortgage does exactly what the banks says it will do, as shown by the example you gave. I do not understand how people got these types of mortgages and then were surprised or could not grasp that their monthly payments would jump up every year by 1% until it remains fixed in the third year. It says so in the description.

            Too many people in this country take no responsibility for their own part in anything. You are suppose be financially astute about YOUR own finances and what you can realistically afford and you are suppose to fully understand what you can pay back, and exactly what your monthly payments will be. And being poor, uneducated, elderly, or young is not an excuse, if you do not fully understand you find someone you know who understands who can explain it to you., you google, read up on it, something. What you do not do is sign shit you do not comprehend. If you do then at least half the blame rests on your own shoulders.

        • BionicMe says:

          #fact

      • Jennifer says:

        The Feds,

        I agree. Other cases which are not case precedent cannot be used as indicative of how this case will transpire. Each case will be concluded on its own merits. No one will know the outcome. What we do know is the generally the DOJ moves for plea arrangements.

        Snipes was unfortunate. He should have not tried his premise. It was foolhardy and was why he received 3 years in prison. He could have had a more lenient sentencing if he accepted a plea arrangement prior to using a ridiculous theory.

    • Buck Henry says:

      It looks like her lawyers wanted Teresa to look more motherly than golddigger for the public now. And for them to say that they will be a united front and such is BS, unless one or both of them are truly afraid what the other spouse will say about other illegal things. One thing Teresa has to figure in this whole thing, is that if you go with Joe and stay attached to him he will bring you down. You can tell it in her face that she isn’t liking this one bit. Sooner or later her lawyers or publicists and such are going to say you have to cut bait and get away from this guy and plead ignorance.

      Because if she goes this route of them together, then it makes it easy for the prosecution to say that she was in on it with her signature and such no matter what Joe says. And for the people to say that Joe will cop to everything or isn’t afraid of going to jail, then why didn’t he. They knew this was coming down, Joe could have went to them and said I forged this and that and lay it all out for them and go away on 39 counts, but he didn’t. Because he doesn’t want to be in prison for decades and his hopeing his wife celebrity status will get him out.

      • The FEDS says:

        Interesting is your view on this. Who is to say that Teresa and not joe is the more guilty party? How can you be certain that joe isn’t sitting on solid proof Teresa herself is guilty? We all speculate based upon things we have read and seen about this couple. No one truly knows the character of either one of them well enough to make such a solid judgement in what they are thinking or what their lawyers defense case is built upon. Certainly not enough evidence has been shown to us to prove one is more guilty than the other. To say otherwise would mean you believe anything that bravo has shown to you. Who is to say that bravo network does not have its own agenda. Perhaps bravo thinks Teresa is their cash cow and set out to create a fan base and portrayal of her as the dumb innocent housewife to insure their investment has the best possibility of thriving when the investigation was complete and charges were filed.
        I don’t personally feel that one is more guilty or innocent than the other. I have nothing to gain or lose either way. It’s interesting to see how people have formed their opinions and judgements based on an edited show that is financially profiting from the individuals in question.

        what I am saying is that things are so mixed up on so many different fronts that its impossible for anyone to give an opinion that’s unbiased and its impossible to decide who has an agenda in the situation. It’s all twisted.

    • Jennifer says:

      Actually that is incorrect. There was no deal on the table, so pleading not guilty allows for a pleading due to what answers they will provide to counter the govrnment’s case. This is actually the best tactical method they could have chosen.

  2. MissVigyal says:

    I posted this on the other story but doesn’t anyone find it weird that the statue of limitations for mail and wire fraud is 5-10 years. How are they being charged from 2001?

    • Divorce says:

      You have a point. That is something their lawyers can argue.

    • jpg says:

      Cause they committed the same crimes for several years.

      • MissVigyal says:

        JPG that makes no sense since i know you read the incitement just like i did and some of the counts are only from 2001……..

        • Jewels says:

          MissVigyal – For every mistake/discrepancy the government finds they can go back a certain number of years.

          This is just an example as I don’t know the exact number of years but if the Government finds a mistake/discrepany in 2008 they can go back say 5 years to 2003. If they find another mistake within that 5 years, they can then go back another five years and so on all the way back until there are no more mistakes/discrepancies to be found.

          • MissVigyal says:

            Jeweles statute of limitations means the following: is an enactment in a common law legal system that sets the maximum time after an event that legal proceedings based on that event may be initiated.

            I am not a lawyer so i don not know but my understanding of this is that once 10 years of time has based from the time mail and wire fraud and fraud were committed then the legal time has passed for them to be prosecuted.

            I understand how they found more instances they farther they go back but it still surpasses the statute of limitations.

          • Jewels says:

            MissVigal – Thanks so much for your definition but I already understand what SOLs are.

            According to the Federal Government, the applicable limitation period may be suspended or extended in cases involving concealment of the assets of an estate in bankruptcy.

            So you see, once the Fraudice’s submitted their fraudulent bankruptcy petition which included all their bogus mortgages, loans, etc. they were trying to get out of paying, they themselves opened the door for the Feds to come on in. Once in, the number of discrepancies found led them to keep going back.

          • Jennifer says:

            No they cannot. The SOL for fraud runs from the moment of the fraud. The statute us explicit. One must read the statute to see it and MissVigyal is right. Now, can the individual himself revive a formally barred crime? This is the theory the gov’t is using and for the 2001 offense that is a poor argument.

      • Jennifer says:

        You cannot revive a fraud when the SOL has passed. There are theories of revival of debt and that they were trying to revive the debt through discharging it during the BK. it is a weak argument for the gov’t.

        • Blue Robin says:

          Jennifer, I really enjoy your comments. I have a feeling you are involved in the legal system somehow. You are well informed and the information you present is interesting, so thank you!

          • Jennifer says:

            Read the conspiracy theory in the indictment. The only scheme which the Gov’t must prove is not apparent. It is specious. The only connection is there are two people Joe and T and nothing more. I am an attorney. But, each and every attorney will have a different opinion on this case.

            I read the indictment for conspiracy. I think it is weak. I think they will pay heavy fines. I do believe Joe will likely have prison time even in a plea deal but I am only speculating. No one knows the outcome from only an indictment.

            I could change my opinion on this in regards to Teresa when I see more evidence.

          • Lawd u gettin on my nerves says:

            Jennifer I second that! I enjoy reading your comments as well. Thanks for posting.

        • Amelia James says:

          I THINK you can if you are arguing conspiracies and continuing offences. The rule for conspiracy and continuing offences is different from normal rules of SOL The statute of limitations for conspiracies runs not from the first criminal act committed in furtherance of the conspiracy but from the last.

          If the feds are trying to argue that the overall goal of the Giudices was to obtain loans fraudulently and then claim bankruptcy so they did not have to pay back said loans; then the SOL would not have began in 2001 when the first crime was committed but in 2009 when the bankruptcy was discharged. The conspiracy to commit bankruptcy fraud being the last crime.

          • Jennifer says:

            You can but it is weak. The only connection for conspiracy from the indictment is there are two people. They didn’t use a common shell corp. G&G actual was a revenue producing business. The modality of the scheme does not seem apparent. It doesn’t fit like Neder v. US has a planned scheme. It is too disjointed. Also, conspiracy is an intent crime. So, they must prove that aside from false documents that she knew they were false and/or that was intentionally blind to a known fact.

            Conspiracy is always weak. You like to get it with the SOL so as not to revert to conspiracy without a plain distinct plan by the co-conspirators.

          • Amelia James says:

            Conspiracy is only weak if you do not have the evidence to back it up, the feds may be able to prove conspiracy. There are quite a few cases the feds have won arguing conspiracy. I heard PACER has more info on the feds evidence but I have not checked it out as yet.

            If she signed these false documents that clearly said she was working when she was not how can she then claim not to know that they were false, I would think that would be a pretty easy thing to prove.

            I do not know, but it appears that the feds think their case is a strong one. We can only speculate we will have to wait and see how it plays out. They may not even be arguing conspiracy, I have no idea.

            I always heard that conspiracy charges are challenging to defend because criminal defence attorneys had to be very very diligent in investigating the fed’s evidence and what role the feds thinks their client had in the conspiracy, and because conspiracy charges are so broad, and the law created by the feds is so challenging and that even if you have a very minor participation in criminal conspiracy you can be charged in the same case as someone who is much more responsible. If one is arrested on conspiracy charges they may likely be held accountable for more than the actions than they actually committed. I gather that means that if the feds are arguing conspiracy Teresa could not only be held responsible for the shit she did but for what Joe did as well, that is messed up.

            I enjoyed your insight into this case Jennifer, it is always good to see someone else’s thoughts on these things. I too think that Joe will probably do time, Teresa may not or she may the feds seem to think she is as guilty as he is. Either way they will have some heavy fines and attorney fees to pay, taxes to payback and are going to be broke for some time. But such is the penalty of crime.

          • Jennifer says:

            No Amelia conspiracy is weak because proving a scheme is exceptionally hard. It is fact based. Also a mere pattern is not enough. They only have two people so there is no hope of one testifying against the other with spousal immunity. This is why conspiracy here is weak.

            Usually in any case the scheme is weak because to prove a scheme and or plan you need more than just the overt act. You need to prove the plan.

          • Jennifer says:

            Amelia,

            Simply signing a doc is NOT conspiracy for the whole scheme. You see conspiracy in Neder is also 5 yrs SOL. And conspiracy does not merge into the underlying crime but the gov’t is saying more than that. It is saying the conspiracy did not end until 2009 or their last overt act, which is not what you are relating.

          • Jennifer says:

            You are right on the issue of conspiracy being a problem if the plan can be created when the defense will be withdrawal. Now the was a case SCOTUS just did in April 2013, Smith. In that case withdrawal must be provided and proved by the defense the burden shifts. So you are right if they can prove a conspiracy of all the incidents was a plan then Teresa would have to prove withdrawal herself because the burden shifts.

            Until we see more then I do not know. On its face conspiracy is hard to prove. If they wrote down and had an extended method of defrauding the banks then I see a plan.

            But you are right we need to see evidence and if there is evidence of a plan burden shifts for withdrawal.

          • Amelia James says:

            Thank you Jennifer for your response I am not an Attorney, so it is nice to hear from one about this case. My fields are finance and investment management, I know some law, but not as much as an attorney would.

      • Mar says:

        Perhaps the (alleged) 2001 offenses are because the statute of limitations does not apply to fraud or tax evasion.

        (Source: Larry Tunnell, Cindy Seipel, and Ed Scribner, “Federal and State Tax Record Retention”, The CPA Journal)

    • emma says:

      I commented about the SOL right after the indictment came down. On the surface, there are a few things that don’t seem to amount to anything more than the Feds throwing the book at them. But, time will tell.

      On another note: Joe’s family are citizens, but Joe didn’t know he’s not? Wait…what?

      • MissVigyal says:

        Thanks emma for clarifying i guess we will see. I saw federal statute for limitations on mail and wire fraud was 5 years but in some cases 10 but like i said about 2001 would be 13 years ago.

        In regards to Joe’s citizenship i have no idea how he was confused unless he confused having a green card with having citizenship b/c having a green card can be very similar but even with a green card you have to renew every 10 years. its strange.

        • emma says:

          You’re right, MissVigyal. When banking is involved, the SOL is extended to 10 years — which is (seemingly) beyond the scope. I can’t remember offhand if the 2001 charges were re-allegations. BUT…the charges are really negotiation points, so we’ll see what happens.

          • LOLA says:

            You’re exactly right, the charges are negotiation points…so the govt throws the book, and the lawyers argue what they can get thrown out.

        • Nonna Gabi says:

          @Ms Vigyal. About the green card. The “newer” cards expire. I don’t know when Joe came to the US, but I do know the green cards given by the US government in the 1970s do not expire. I have family members with those cards so I have first hand knowledge of that..

          • MissVigyal says:

            Hi Nonna, my brother and law has a green card still and has to renew every 10 years i believe. Not sure what the laws are from the 1970s but wouldn’t it put joe in that category?

          • emma says:

            MissVigyal, green cards issued in the ’70s didn’t have expiration dates, so they didn’t need to be renewed. If the green card was issued before the person turned 14, they’d have to have applied for a new card which would then need to be renewed. Hope this makes sense!

          • BionicMe says:

            #fact and if he’s in his mid forties and has been here since a small kid, changes are his is permanent. Only time to change it is when he turned 18 and had to put fingerprints to it because he became of legal age.

          • Jennifer says:

            Nonna,

            I do not believe that Joe didn’t know he was a citizen. I think he thought that due to fact he was a permanent alien for so long and was married to a US citizen he likely believed he would automatically receive US citizenship if he so chose.

            I agree with your idea. I just think what his attorney stated was an oversimplification of what Joe actually thought.

      • Kat says:

        First time posting–I totally am blown away by this. Has he not traveled overseas–requiring proof that he is a U.S. citizen? And if he did obtain a passport and he is NOT a U.S. citizen–wouldn’t that be another fraud charge? And so the lies continue……

        • MissVigyal says:

          Just because your not a US citizen doesn’t mean he couldn’t travel with his Italian passport and just thought to himself he doesn’t want to bother with the US passport. I have dual citizenship and sometimes just travel with my Hungarian passport depending on the country.

          • Salazar says:

            I do not believe for a second that he didn’t want to “bother” with a US passport but he did bother to have an Italian passport a country he does not live in

          • LOLA says:

            True, I have a friend from England, she moved here when she was 5, had her green card for 40 years before she became a citizen…she just used her English passport to travel.

          • MissVigyal says:

            Salazar it isn’t out of the realm of possibility. Passport renewals for adults in italy are every ten years and he wouldn’t necessarily need a us passport to travel as i said above.

          • Sugarlump says:

            I just find it strange that he is the only one from his family to not obtain citizenship. I wonder why? I know he can get by with the green card but if his parents and siblings took the time to do so why wouldn’t he? I believe his siblings married American citizens just as he did. Things that make you go hmmmm…

          • stephanieg says:

            Just bc you have dual citizenship doesn’t mean Joe did. They’ve already cleared stated that he is not a citizen. I hate to burst your bubble but there is NO WAY Joe didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen bc he had to travel with a green card & an italian passport. Give me a break!!!! And quite honestly if he didn’t want to “bother” with being a US citizen & getting a US passport then I say send his ass back to Italy. They are both frauds, actually all of RHONJ “housewives” are frauds.

          • Jennifer says:

            Salazar,

            Many people never want to attain US citizenship and only want to keep their permanent green card. My mother is French but has been in the US for 53 years. She has never wanted to receive US citizenship.

          • Salazar says:

            I understand not wanting US citizenship,that is not my point your mom is a french citizen and knows that. my point is he has to be aware he is not a US citizen ,

        • Nonna Gabi says:

          Kat, he probably used his European Community passport for the Republic of Italy. I can’t speak for him, but maybe he thought he had dual citizenship?

          • Kat says:

            Hi Nonna! I am sure that he could use that passport to enter Italy but I believe that in order to re-enter the US, he would need to show a US passport, an enhanced driver’s license, or other reason to legally enter the US–i.e. green card (and if it is the latter, wouldn’t that indicate that he knew he was not a US citizen–and from the lawyer’s statement, he seems to be saying that he NEVER knew that he was not a citizen) He apparently does not have dual citizenship. Considering all the things that you need to show your birth certificate for (i.e., driver’s license, SS number), I find it really hard to believe that no one has ever informed him of his non-citizen status.

          • Aloicious says:

            Kat, I think you’re right- entering into another country/ leaving the US is entirely different than entering the US. There’s absolutely NO way you don’t know your status!

          • BionicMe says:

            Kat- You don’t know what you’re talking about. All he needed to do to re-enter the USA is a valid greencard and even a Mickey Mouse passport.

        • BionicMe says:

          Please go brush up on immgration and naturalization. Your post is just super ignorant.

          He doesn’t need to be a “citizen” to travel outside of the US. If he has a legal alien (Greencard) he can come and go as he pleases. You are assuming that he had a false “blue passport”? Yet, you don’t even know the law? oh ok.

          • kat says:

            Hi, Biotech! True, I don’t know every single immigration law that there is; however, I believe I was commenting on the fact that his lawyer seems to indicate that he NEVER knew that he was not a citizen. I believe I did mention that he could enter the US if he showed a legal reason to be here, i.e. a green card. If this is the case, he absolutely would know his citizenship status; Never once did I state that he could not leave the country as an unnaturalised resident. I was commenting on the KNOWLEDGE of his status. Did he fraudulently obtain a US passport like he (allegedly) sought to obtain a driver’s license? I don’t know, because I don’t know what kind of passport (US or Italian) that he had to surrender. So–it is either he does realize that he is not a citizen and is using other forms of identification (i.e. green card) to travel internationally, or he has fraudulently obtained proof of US citizenship (i.e., US passport). I hope I was able to clarify my stance, as well as my appearance of being “super ignorant”.

      • Aunt Sadie says:

        Maybe he thought marrying a us citizen made him one. I forget the laws but at one time two years of marriage then u were a citizen. With paperwork of course.

        • emma says:

          I didn’t even think of that angle, Aunt Sadie. You could be right. I had a good chuckle when I read it in the NY Daily News, though! :)

        • Salazar says:

          I think he would know that after being married to a citizen for two years you are eligible to apply for citizenship you are not automatically a citizen

        • Aloicious says:

          You can gain citizenship through marriage. But, it is a long, tedious process and you need to apply… You don’t automatically get citizenship. I think most immigrants know this…

        • Jennifer says:

          I believe he thought at anytime he could have attained US citizenship and he was not precluded from attaining it since he likely had a green card his whole life.

      • Cajsa says:

        This actually happened in my family. My grandparents immigrated from Sweden with their children. After five years, they became naturalized citizens. My uncles were still children at the time and just assumed their were citizens. It was not until my uncle retired that he learned he did not become a citizen along with his parents. He became one as soon as possible and had no legal issues because it was just one of those things.

    • Aloicious says:

      There is no statute of limitations on certain types of fraud. I may be wrong, but I think tax fraud has no statute. And, once they research recent years and find discrepancies, they can go back further…

      There is no way that he couldn’t know he wasn’t a citizen… that is just BS. He wouldn’t have an American passport, he’d have to carry his green card when traveling (or technically all the time), can’t vote, can’t do jury duty, etc… that’s just not something that you don’t know.

      • MissVigyal says:

        Hi Aliocious i was only referring to the mail and wire fraud which has the 10 year statute of limitations.

      • Salazar says:

        I agree completely Aloicious ,they have left the country several times this is impossible that he had no idea

        • renata says:

          as someone that has dual citizenship, yes you can travel with your non-usa passport but his excuse is the dumbest one I have ever heard. First off, a green card doesn’t last forever. You need to have it renewed so if he was little when he came here he should have had to renew it at least 3 times by now. Two, if he applied for work prior to starting his own business most companies require you to show proof of citizenship. His excuse is a cop out and he must think everyone is stupid and that we would all believe that bs story. I do not think she had knowledge of what he did. I think she let him handle all the finances and trusted him to handle everything.

          • The FEDS says:

            I don’t know if I would call his excuse the dumbest one ever. In fact, I may call his lawyer a fucking genius for the excuse. Watch this play out and see if you agree later. I just hope their defense team recieves the credit they deserve for what they will accomplish. :)

          • BionicMe says:

            Other existing Green Cards have no expiration date, and those cards remain valid.

            Newly issued Green Cards are valid for ten years for lawful permanent residents and two years for conditional residents.

          • Jennifer says:

            The Feds,

            Do you believe that they are trying to make these two look like they are beyond idiots, so that they could never have devised a scheme or plan? I think is a possibility.

      • emma says:

        Aloicious, the SOL in question regards Teresa’s (alleged) bank fraud and related charges in 2001. There’s a 10 year SOL on bank fraud.

        I agree with you; how would Joe, whom we’ve seen travel outside of the US, not know he’s not a US citizen?! I’m calling shenanigans on this!

        • MissVigyal says:

          You can travel outside of the US without a US passport just saying…

          • Salazar says:

            when us citizens travel outside the us they need a US passport .if he traveled without one then clearly he is not a US citizen there are maybe 5 places you can travel without one and not the places they have been

          • emma says:

            Yep. And we’ve seen him in Italy and he’d need his Italian passport to enter and exit Italy if he’s an Italian citizen. And I guess that could explain why he didn’t think he needed (or wanted) a US passport if he didn’t know he wasn’t a US citizen…I just find it hard to believe he didn’t know!

          • MissVigyal says:

            Exactly Salazar b/c he had an italian passport. If he assumed dual citizenship he wouldn’t NEED a US passport to travel.

          • Salazar says:

            Right I know the point is he had to know that he was not a US citizen it’s impossible he didn’t know it doesn’t make any sense that he wouldn’t have a US passport if he is a US citizen and lives in the US…he wouldn’t need a US passport if he’s not a citizen that is clear

          • Aloicious says:

            MisVigyal, I know you can travel out of the US w/o a US passport but you cannot get a US passport if you are not a citizen and to travel back in you generally need to show your foreign passport and green card or need to get a visitors visa (not sure what it’s called). My point is that there’s no way he didn’t know when having to deal with this. Even for the simple reason that he would even be entering through different customers lines/ areas than his family that are citizens!

          • Aloicious says:

            *customs not customers

      • rhfan says:

        Regarding statue of limitations, I believe it becomes extended if it is part of an ongoing crime.

        For example, if you use something as collateral that you obtained fraudently, then the original transaction can be brought in. So, if you committed fraud to get your home, and you refinance that home, you can now be charged with 2 counts of fraud. Sort of like a “ponzi scheme”. I know this because in Denver, just before the real estate market fell, there was a group of people that were charged with fraud going back to the early 90′s.

      • Jennifer says:

        That is true. There is no SOL on tax fraud. However, they usually do not go back more than 3 years. But if they find fraud they can go back forever.

    • The FEDS says:

      This is a point I researched in the beginning. It shows weakness in the case. You see people saying the giudices are screwed because the Feds don’t come for you unless they have a solid case. This is true but it’s because the Feds dig and compile and bring as much as they can to the table knowing full well that most charges will be dropped and then pleaded down. They have the charges that are beyond limitations to show a pattern of criminal behavior. When all is said and done they will be facing 1-2 charges each. If that. Regardless of people’s personal opinion or judgements, this case is not a 50 year prison term for this couple.

      • LookersMissesMelissa says:

        THANK YOU!!! Lol they actually think these ppl are facing “hard time” ! Lolol I’ll be shocked if EITHER do any jail time! I know from first hand experience and won’t say aceord now but y’all are delusional thinking any judge will put BOTH PARENTS of 4 minors behind bars for whire collar crimes which most likely ALL add up to a couple of million, IF that.

      • The original whodat2112 says:

        I agree with every word you said. I’ve been saying the same thing since the news broke! I haven’t been commenting as much because a couple of commenters are soooooo exhausting! Same thing over and over, such glee in the fact the parents of 4 beautiful angels may IMO, won’t) go away. I feel it will plead WAY down, fines etc!

        Thanks for the common sense in your post! It’s quite refreshing!

      • BionicMe says:

        Right. Not like they are Bernie Madoff either.

  3. samael says:

    I have already stated on the other story, I am so proud of Teresa – she showed up herself – instead of sending the Lawyer or PR.

    HLN also said that last week Teresa got upset because a question was asked about how the girls are doing.

    This is being accountable, both are heading in the right direction.

    Teresa is fulfilling her contract and Joe is right by her side…both got into illegal issues together and both will endure the court system “pennance”.

    Teresa’s emotional state is a concern for me, things she now has to deal with:

    - preparing for October 8
    - preparing her RHNJ blog every week
    - prepare for end of season to talk about or get used to saying ” I can’t discuss the case right now”
    - fulfill her contract with Milania (it was rumor about firing her)
    - fulfill contracted book signing dates
    - try to be positive for the girls

    When does this woman have time to re-charge or have down time to calm down?

    This is her life now. And if today is hint of Teresa’s personal strength…wow.

    • Divorce says:

      Because of the charges and the number of years they could possibly do, they were required to be in court.

      • samael says:

        Hi Divorce

        Thanks for the info…when this came to light July 29, all sorts of people were saying that Teresa and Joe don’t need to be there the lawyer’s can put in the plea.

        Either way, Teresa’s life is forever changed due to her decision’s and I still worry about her emotional state.

        • LaraM says:

          @Samael, I guess my last post didn’t take bc of having to sign in each time.

          However, I agree with you, and understood what you meant. #strongwoman she is, but one can only handle so much. Teresa is another Hilary Clinton! :-)

          Have a good evening, all!

          • samael says:

            Hi Laram

            Long time no hear..how are you.

          • Sugarlump says:

            I really have a hard time seeing any comparison with Teresa and Hillary Clinton.

          • Amelia James says:

            Hilary Clinton are you crazy or just completely delusional; Hilary Clinton never committed 39 counts of fraud, Hilary is highly educated and can form actual coherent sentences. There is no comparison between Hilary and Teresa.

          • They're All Crazy says:

            Hilary Clinton? The sleeziest woman in Washington? I thought you like Teresa…..

          • samael says:

            Sugarlump/Ameilia

            Now Really, even I knew that my bud LaraM was alluding to being in front of the world and not killing Bill Clinton the first chance she got.

            Geez…
            :)

    • Nancysue says:

      That’s all well and good, and I love Teresa and family, some of us go down hill for other circumstances, like a 8 year breast cancer fight, you can find yourself owing everybody and their brother $$, kids have to accept the reality of the living situation, even when they are young, wasn’t my choice to end up down and out, I’d love to tell my story, but who cares!

      • samael says:

        Hi NancySue

        I am sorry that you had to endure the pain that exists for surviving breast cancer…awesome that you are continuing to survive this.

        The financial burden’s of health issues is very real.

        People on the site share their personal experiences all the time.

        You just did …and here we are talking.
        :)

      • Salazar says:

        That is so sad Nancy obviously you had no choice in your situation ,it doesn’t sound like you had a desire to be rich and famous and live above your means by any way possible .I’m sorry this happened to you ,people do care

        • Bryn says:

          Hi Nancy, just so u know there are people on here who do care. I lost my mom to a fifteen year fight with breast cancer. Not only did she have to cope with breast surgery, chemo and raditation, The insurance company tried everything they could to get out of paying for all of this. She was on the phone fighting everyday with them while going thru so much. I sincerely wish you the best.

      • LaraM says:

        God bless you, @NancySue. Know you aren’t alone! :-)

      • Nonna Gabi says:

        Nancy Sue. I care. God bless you.

      • Trishitrishi says:

        Tell it! I care, I suffer from an Incurable disease, & have chronic pain, & i am severly injured. The sweet onocololgist that was also taking care of people with my disease died.

        • Lawd u gettin on my nerves says:

          Awe bless your heart. Prayers going up for you. I certainally can relate to chronic pain and things that are inoperable. I feel for you!

      • DebG says:

        Nancysue, God Bless you a lot of us posting here do care. I lost a daughter to cancer in 2008, I will be praying for and your family. I pray you are in remission.

      • BionicMe says:

        Tell it! Why think nobody cares? Try it. You’ll be surprised. Be blessed.

  4. Aunt Sadie says:

    I have a feeling Tre is about to be the highest paid hw in all the franchises!!

  5. lorraine b. says:

    All my prayers for them to get through this rough time. Thanks for the info.

  6. whodat13 says:

    Tre and Joe have a lot of ‘splaining to do.

  7. nat says:

    Not much media there this time????

  8. Babs says:

    That’s a lie that he didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen. He has to renew his green card every 10 years otherwise he would be here illegal and he wouldn’t be able to work, in worst case he would be deported. He had to know that…

    • jarlath says:

      That is what I was thinking too. He clearly knew he was not a citizen. When they went to Italy on god knows what season, he had to clear customs when returning to the US and you need a passport regardless. So I don’t buy this lie.

    • emma says:

      I have a hard time believing Joe didn’t know he wasn’t a US citizen, but the green card issue isn’t as cut and dried as you think. If he got a green card when he came here in 1971 or whatever, there were no expiration dates on cards issued back then, so they didn’t need to be renewed. If he got a green card before he turned 14, he’d have to have gotten a new card — but who knows? We don’t know when he got his green card. And like I said…I don’t see how anyone wouldn’t know if they’re a citizen or not, but hey, who knows what’s really going on? I sure don’t.

  9. ladynblack says:

    In one of the seasons didn’t they go to Italy? Didn’t he have a passport or his green card?

    • LegBeforeWicket says:

      He obviously had an Italian PP! He thought that if he played stupid long enough that this would all work!

      • jarlath says:

        An Italian passport that he would have needed to renew because if he came here as a child it would have obviously expired. These people can’t stop lying.

        • MissVigyal says:

          Why would it be lying if he assumed dual citizenship and only renewed the italian passport. Its not out of the realm of possibility. I do find it strange that he didn’t know his legal status but im starting to lean on that he just didn’t care. If he already had the italian passport since birth he can pretty much go anywhere americans can so i don’t find it INSANE.

          • Nonna Gabi says:

            I agree. And to come back to the US he needed his green card. No one would stop him at the airport, so why would he need to get a US passport? I’m wondering if his Mother is now a US citizen and he thought that he was a citizen through her (just as I can claim Italian citizenship through mine).

          • Silvana says:

            Look I don’t care or have the time to sit and ponder whether he knew he was a citizen or not but him only having a Italian passport is not really a big deal. I am 38 years old and had not left Australia since my honeymoon 16 years ago But if I was considering on going to Europe I would definitely only get an Italian passport as my father is not naturalised and my siblings and I have duel citizenship it’s easier to travel through Europe with an Italian one rather than an Australian one but since we went to Hawaii instead of Europe I got an Australian one instead be Australian one instead because it didn’t make a difference.

        • BionicMe says:

          and as if they don’t have Italian Embassy here to renew.

    • jarlath says:

      You need both your green card and your passport if you’re a resident alien. He’s clearly lying about not knowing he was not a citizen. Furthermore, would have needed to have a valid Italian passport.

    • LegBeforeWicket says:

      Of course he did. An ITALIAN ONE and Tre knew damn well he wasn’t a citazen.!

    • Maru the Cat says:

      Maybe he thought he had dual citizenship?

  10. LegBeforeWicket says:

    You know what????? These two are both sooo slimey that they MAY just get away with this!! Remember OJ LOL

    • jerseygirl says:

      I don’t think they’ll walk away from this completely innocent. I know all to well that the government is out for not only their pound of flesh, but some publicity to show us they are making people pay for the mortgage market crisis.

      It’s merely to deflect attention away from the fact that those responsible for much more and worse are walking away without a scratch because of their financial & political clout.

    • LOLA says:

      Wow, are you really comparing financial crimes to double murder???

      • jpg says:

        Not to speak for Leg, but I think what she was saying is the cases are similar in the fact that the whole damn country knows they are guilty, but will possibly walk away.

        If they do, great. These two crooks wouldn’t know hard work if it slapped them I’m the face. They’ll find new and interesting ways to steal money and go down eventually.

        • jary says:

          Why do you hate these people so much. It as if you are so happy that this has happened. It is not just this case of fraud, but everything about them you fire back negatively. Are you Kim G! You sure sound like her. Are you in love with one of them and was shunned? It is not healthy to have such hate toward people. I pray for your spirit. As I pray that there is some way that if guilty that these parents can stay out of prison and raise their daughter. Two many parentless children in this world as it is. What good does sending people to prison do for such crimes as this. You’re penalized in US for not sending in taxes info on time, but the IRS is not penalized for losing your return or claiming they never received it or for plain ole negligence…who’s in prison. If not guilty, then I pray that they are more conscientious of their business dealings in the future. But to say they never seen a hard days work in their lives…makes everything you say have no validity at all; unless you known them all their lives. Unless you’re blind and can not at least see what little of their lives the rest of the viewer see; there’s plenty of hard work on their side. Teresa…leagues more than any other woman on that show. But where is your written disdain against them. JPG you are a classic sour puss…and hater. How was your childhood?

          • jpg says:

            Nothing fails like prayer. You keep on keepin’ on with that.

            My childhood was lovely. Neither of my parents were ever faced with 50 years in prison let alone jail time.

            I was raised to be honest and hardworking and that the most important things in life can’t be bought.

            I think the real question is what the hell happened in Teresa’s childhood?

          • BionicMe says:

            And if you noticed this poster only comments on the Giudices. Suspect

          • jpg says:

            Correction. I usually only comment on RHONJ threads. Sorry I don’t have time in my life to keep up with all 46 HW franchises.

      • Trishitrishi says:

        I thought that comparison was really nuts too. Teresa & Joe have not become murderers. I don’t like that Monica Ciccone & I think she wanted her 15 minutes of fame, nor do I believe Joe’s business partner was a nice guy, Joe admitted he & his partner signed for each other. His lawyer explained a lot o business is done on a handshake or gentleman’s agreement, but you have to legally have on paper so he had to pay the $260,000. That is when Joe said I with an ironic laugh I guess it is better to lie. I don’t think Joe is too bright & I think he operates old school trusting people, which is a mistake. I also do believe there are some people on the show who wanted Teresa gone. How does Ciccone end up at Melissa’s Christmas party? God help Melissa if she did what I suspect she has done. I enjoy these reality shows but even if I find them annoying, I don’t want to see them fall. I do think the original housewives were naive & mislead to what Bravo would do to them for ratings.

        • Silvana says:

          I think she meant it as the Guidices and oj are similar in the fact that everyone knew/knows they are guilty but still want them to get away with it in oj’s case it was a racial thing and the Guidices it’s a story where people dont care if the government get shafted cause they shaft us every fucking day!!!! Well done to anyone who can rip the government off and get away with it.

          • BionicMe says:

            Well, you now have a “white” guilty but not acquitted Zimmerman. I guess society just got even.

    • Hoot says:

      They don’t in any way compare to OJ. They are not accused of murdering two people.

      The ones who DID get away with everything, including the fleecing of the American public, are the banks and our own government. Makes me sick.

      What I don’t get is why the feds aren’t going after all the banks that made bad loans? wtf? Focussing on two people when WHOLE institutions got away with cr*p is absurd!

      • jpg says:

        Because in America you are supposed to be held accountable for your own actions. You don’t get a free pass on crimes you’ve CHOSEN to commit because someone committed a worse crime.

        What aren’t you people getting about this?

        I think it comes down to everyone realizes there is no justifiable reason for their behavior . The best some of you can come up with is trying to divert attention away from these two lazy criminals.

        • Nonna Gabi says:

          No, the majority of us want to judge this case on its merits, not on any personal dislike of people. I say the government needs to show their proofs and if they really did the crime, they will do the time. But until I see the evidence, I will assume innocent until proven guilty.

          • jpg says:

            Well all the “merits” point to guilty as sin, as even most Tre fans will agree with.

            So you keep assuming. Completely your right. But you are setting yourself up for one hell of a hard smack of reality.

          • Trishitrishi says:

            Thanks Nonna! Why do people get pleasure of convicting people through the media? How many innocent people have been convicted that were innocent? I wold be scared to death if accused of a crime I did not commit. With no money I would probably end up in prison. I sure as heck don’t think it is an even playing field if you are innocent & cannot afford great attorney’s & even great attorney’s cannot guarantee an innocent person does not get convicted.

          • Nonna Gabi says:

            You haven’t seen the evidence. No one has. You just hate them that much. What are these people to you that you are so vehement? And chew on this. What if the plan by the Feds is to get them ammo for Jac and Chris? What if Teresa knows every dirty deed and where all the money is hidden? And what if these are charges designed for them to cut a deal and put those criminals in jail. They bled a company dry to pretend they are wealthy. They defrauded a charity and put so many people out of work so they can live in their Franklin Lakes home (which isn’t that great by Franklin Lakes standards). Jac probably spilled her guts to T and Joe. If anyone should go to prison it should be those two. Now wouldn’t that be interesting …

          • jpg says:

            Your fantasy world is incredible Nonna. So even though Joe and Teresa have 39 charges against them, we are to presume they are innocent but convict Chris and Jaq over a conspiracy theory that only exists in your mind?

            Are the unicorns puking rainbows where you live?

          • Nonna Gabi says:

            Why the double standard jpg? Jac and Chris’ suit is very real and going through the court system. Their own attorneys admitted that Chris lied to them and destroyed evidence. where is your self-righteous outrage over that? You don’t hear about their suit so much because, quite frankly, nobody really cares about them. Is it because you don’t hate them the way you hate Teresa? I don’t know these people, but I am an intelligent woman who wants to make an independent judgment. I don’t care how many counts are against them. I will not presume guilt just because you and your cohorts can’t see beyond your blind hatred.

            And please do not call me delusional. You do not know me. We are not friends. I have been very respectful. Please make the effort so that we can have a civil and rational conversation.

          • Silvana says:

            I agree hoot banks and the government are no better than organised crime only difference is they pass themselves off as legitimate businesses !!!

          • jpg says:

            You are correct. I do not know you. I can only go by what you type. You type some pretty delusional shit. If you don’t like being called delusional, I suggest you quit presenting yourself as such.

            There are currently no criminal charges against Chris or Jaq (except for the pending assault charges from JTG) That’s why you don’t hear about it. It’s civil.

            Too think that Teresa & Joe will get off because of a CIVIL case for Jaq and Chris IS in fact deluisional.

            Sorry that hurts your feelings.

        • Hoot says:

          jpg: “Held accountable for their actions,” huh? Tell that to the feds who have not prosecuted all the “criminals” who worked at banks that made those horrible loans. Tell that to the feds who have not prosecuted the welfare recipients who have defrauded the “system” for years and are so unmotivated to work now that our government has made them dependent on it. Tell that to our government who gives millions of dollars in aid to students from other countries who get educated here then go back to their homeland and help their economies (while we struggle to pay our kids’ tuitions so they can become productive members of OUR society).

          You want to talk being “held accountable for their actions?” The Giudices are but a grain of sand in the pile of dirt our government shovels under the rug every day – but they sure are getting some great publicity from this case to show us how big and powerful they are – while they let the bigger fish get away!! Please, it’s a joke.

          • Silvana says:

            Once again hoot I agree with everything you just said!!!! And I’m Australian but your statement is just as plausible here in Australia as well our government is just the same hell probably even worse cause they fuckin backstab each other within their own parties as well!!!!

          • Lawd u gettin on my nerves says:

            @Hoot….Thank you for that straight up TRUTH!

          • jpg says:

            Well when someone kills someone you love and their defense is “But Jeffrey Dahmer killed 17!!” We should let them off, right?

            Cause that’s EXACTLY your argument right now.

        • Jennifer says:

          JPG,

          At this point we only have the indictment and the plea of not guilty. We do to know what evidence T and J’s attorneys will provide to refute the gov’t's case. So no one knows at this point what the outcome will be.

          I believe it is highly likely they will face large fines and I doubt there will be jail time. The gov’t is out for compensation and not retribution. The IRS seldom wants to resort to jail time which can curtail one’s ability to pay.

      • BionicMe says:

        They shouldn’t even be compared to Bernie Madoff that defraud half the US.

  11. stephanieg says:

    There are no camera’s in federal court. Which means no filming the trial for Bravo. Personally, I think these 2 should cop a plea & be done. From what I’ve read of the indictment, they have tons of proof. The Feds ain’t playin!!!!! I get the sense that Teresa & Joe think that this will all just blow over but I don’t think so. I wonder whats gonna happen in Joe’s idenity theft case since the fed case is set for October & so is his other case. Interesting!

    • Olivia says:

      I agree. All of this is just too much. The sad thing is that there are people who commit mortgage fraud, etc but because they’re either 1) not famous at all or 2) so powerful they can escape it…they get away with it. Seems so ironic to me that Tre was probably living this lifestyle to be noticed especially on Real Housewives…and now the feds are noticing big time. The only thing I can think is that they might hesitate to give both parents jail time? I do think this is serious…will not blow over…my sister, an accountant, always tells me…if you mess over a business/bank or in this case the feds…they will get their money back somehow eventually

  12. Tlcory says:

    Oh for heavens sake! Everyone can speculate all they want and say the Giudices were stupid blah blah blah, I’m sure their Lawyers know what they are doing and the Giudices are doing what the lawyers suggest. I’m sure the lawyers have gone over each count with a fine tooth comb so they must have reason to plead not guilty.

    • stephanieg says:

      @Tlcory, you’re correct in that I’m sure their lawyers have gone over every charge with a fine tooth comb BUT obviously the Feds have also gone over those charges with a fine tooth comb & if I had to chose who I believe right now….I’d say the Feds because Joe & Teresa are notorious for being shady!! Just sayin……

    • DebV says:

      Not trying to be argumentative but guilty people plead innocent everyday in court. Sometimes prosecutors can not prove their cases and people walk away from the charges.

      • Trishitrishi says:

        That is true & also sickening, but if you are innocent & have no money & get raped in prison, spend your life in prison then the innocence project gets you out, if you are lucky enough to have them interested, because the government is not going to admit to a mistake ever, then imagine how you would feel. It is so scary that a person you don’t know, can say you were involved with drugs, & that alone can get you arrested. It is true, look it up. That is what I mean by average people being able to defend themselves, you can’t. Only the wealthy have a shot, & even thy don’t always get off. Look at Roy Black, he lost a case & said the client didn’t have a chance at a fair trial & you have to have the big bucks to afford him.

      • Jennifer says:

        Then live in Japan. In Japan must people who are indicted actually plead guilty.

    • LaraM says:

      Like @ticory, and agree.

    • Nonna Gabi says:

      I think the defense attorneys are in the process of doing their due diligence and have gone through the discovery and can counter what the govt has in its possession.

    • Kukulet says:

      @TIcory: Are you kidding? Do you know how many convicts plead “not guilty” regardless of their guilt? Probably 95%. It’s the only way get a jury trial and possibly escape imprisonment. A “guilty” plea bypasses a jury trial and leads directly to a sentence imposed by the court. Do not pass go, go directly to jail.

  13. shiks says:

    Tre’s rockin another great “go to court” outfit! Looks like she’ll be hitting the nearest Ann Taylor store. At least she knows enough not to wear leopard and her stupid “cowboy” hats to court!!! Oh, and look a Juicy smiling! D-bags!!!

  14. holy cannoli says:

    What??? Joe didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen? Seriously? WTF?

    Anyhow, I agree with @Ticory ^^^

    • The original whodat2112 says:

      ITA with @Holy and Ticory!

    • Kukulet says:

      No way did Joe not know he wasn’t a citizen of the US. Even permanent resident alien status requires the card to be renewed every ten years or so, so INS can have updated info and picture on file. (Husband is Canadian, has lived in the USA for 50 years, familiar with the process.)

      And INS knows where to find you. They work with the IRS to do it. Course…actually filing your tax returns might make a difference…lol…

  15. Ginny says:

    Joe and Teresa have the unenviable status of being high profile people. Im sure there are many out there who are in similar circumstances who are being overlooked. Miss Monica should have her work cut out for her unless she is a one note wonder. If she doesn’t continue her pursuit of looking into lower profile people then that would really make me suspicious of her attention to this case.

    I won’t judge until the verdict is in. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty. A lot of people forget this. They also forget that just because you’ve been charged with a crime you are not always a bad person. You may have made an error in judgement over a period of time but you are still a husband, wife, father, mother, daughter, son and trying to live a normal life for everyone.

    I really don’t understand how Joe could not be a citizen. That’s too many years of travelling, getting a driver’s license, voting (did he vote)?

    Anyway, I’m biased and I know it but it doesn’t all add up to me yet!!!

    • Nonna Gabi says:

      Hey Ginny. Joe could not have voted in any election, but he could certainly get his drivers license.

    • Kukulet says:

      My husband has lived in the USA for 50 years, but is still a Canadian citizen. It’s not difficult to maintain resident alien status once you have it. Simply stay out of trouble and renew the card when required. Quite a few do it, because it’s cheaper than paying for naturalization. The only real difference is the lack of voting privileges or if you land a job that requires governmental security clearance beyond a certain level.

      • BionicMe says:

        #fact but unless your husband lost, damaged or simply updated his greencard to the latest version (for enhanced security) he doesn’t really need to replace it since old cards don’t expire.

    • Panda Bear says:

      Even illegal immigrants can get driver’s licenses. Resident aliens can vote in some elections just not federal depends on the jurisdiction.

      It is actually pretty easy to go through life in the US without having citizenship. Even illegal immigrants have jobs,go to school, own businesses and property, travel, etc.

      In some locales it is illegal to check a person’s immigration status when they are pulled over by cops.

      There are tons of documented stories in the Washington Post, LA Times, NYT that tell the stories of people (some children, some adults) who were unaware they were not citizens.

      I have a Mexican friend who had no idea he was illegal until he tried to move to the UK with his wife a few years ago. He traveled back and forth to Mexico, went to school and college being undocumented. He was able to get his citizenship and now they live outside of London.

      Whether Joe knew or not, I’m not going to speculate on that, I just find with all the rhetoric concerning immigration in the US now,its surprising more people aren’t aware of the rights immigrants both legal and illegal already have in the US.

    • BionicMe says:

      How can he “vote”? Please answer your own question. He doesn’t need to be a “Citizen” to have a drivers license as long as he is a legal resident but I am sure you already knew that.

      I do agree with you on all your other points. Besides, we are all sinners. Some commit illegal crimes and some commit morally corrupt ones. People want to act brand news as if they are perfect. You don’t have to commit fraud to be a loser. Just saying…

  16. santorino says:

    I will be praying for them to get sentenced to fullest extent of the law, and then immediately deported. Please God, please!

    • jpg says:

      Lol. Tell us how you really feel ;)

      • rhfan says:

        @jpg

        Hi. I saw your post on the other thread, re W.Park. I knew you were on the Westside, had no idea you made the daily Ute Pass trek. The closing of 24 seems to be a daily event. Glad you’re ok.

        We’re downtown, so besides some minor street flooding, no real rain problems.

        Stay safe! If it keeps raining like this, you might need a canoe ;)

  17. Smh says:

    I’m going to throw my opinion out there based on my professional experience. For the sake of anonymity, I won’t say my actual career. However, suffice it to say I have extensive professional experience with federal prosecutions.

    For all of you who keep saying, “there’s no proof,” you’re wrong. Anyone can register for and use PACER (just google it) and you can see all of the evidence. Believe it or not, Teresa participated in this fraud. There are sworn affidavits from loan officers who say that she presented false documents to the loan officer in person. I have next to no doubt that Teresa and Joe will both serve time. Because of Joe’s pending New Jersey state fraud charges, he’s looking at serious time. If he’s convicted of the state charges, that sentence will run consecutively to his federal term. Realistically, they’ll probably plead down to mail fraud. And, yes, October is a realistic trial date. The prosecution’s case is iron-clad, as are all white collar federal prosecutions.

    You really can’t compare the Giudice’s to others who may have committed similar offenses. The difference between others and the Giudice’s is that the others didn’t sign up for a reality show whose sole purpose is to flaunt wealth, wealth that the Giudice’s obtained through ill-gotten gains. The government wants to make an example of them? Good for them.

    • jpg says:

      Get ready. They’re gonna go apeshit on you.

      Btw. You rock.

      • Smh says:

        I’m fully expecting it. I’m a big girl. I can take it. The thing is, I don’t feel as if any of the women on these shows are my friends. It’s entertainment, but that’s it. I get as much entertainment out of watching Big Cat Diary on the BBC.

        • Hoot says:

          I do believe you know your facts, but tell me, do the banks that funded the Giudices have no culpability?

          You are correct about flaunting their lifestyle on national tv. That’s the one thing I can’t get over that they did. I mean, if someone knowingly does something illegal why would they advertise it like that?

          I guess that’s why the Laurita’s may also have a few worries right now. It costs money to send a daughter away to live in Texas and California while she “finds herself,” drive nice cars, wear designer duds, eat the best food, drink the finest wines, live in a huge house, take lavish vacations, have numerous cosmetic procedures, start up businesses, and take care of a special needs child who has nine hours of therapy each day.

          • Amelia James says:

            Why would the banks that they defrauded be held accountable in a court of law. That is ridiculous and that would be like punishing the victims for the crimes of these thieves. The banks may have had bad policies but that did not give the Giudices the right to steal form them.

          • They're All Crazy says:

            Typical, blame everyone but the f—ing thief. Oh, it’s the banks fault. This is what is wrong with society, no one takes responsibility for anything they do, always someone elses fault. WTF!

          • Smh says:

            What culpability should the banks have? They requested proof of income and assets and the Giudice’s provided it. However, they provided forged and fraudulent proof of income. They lied in every way possible to the banks in order for the banks to fund them. According to the grand jury exhibits, one or two banks reported their fraud. How would they be culpable or liable?

            I mentioned this in another post, but the Giudice’s and laurita’s are apples and oranges. The Laurita’s are NOT under criminal investigation for fraud. A civil lawsuit was filed against them. Without getting too technical, the civil allegations levied against the Laurita’s have to do with how corporate funds were spent. If the plaintiffs in that case can prove their allegations, there may or may not be criminal misconduct. Most likely there isn’t. It depends on the Articles of Incorporation for that company. If there’s criminal misconduct, you can bet the plaintiffs’ attorneys will push for criminal investigation just as Monica Chacon did. A lot of people are blaming Chacon for wanting her 15 minutes, but that’s not true. A lot of times, criminal convictions are the only way that victims can be compensated. She wouldn’t be doing her job if she didn’t pursue every avenue of recovery for her clients. For those who don’t know, she is a very highly respected attorney who has been published multiple times in many law journals.

            Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion about everything, but facts are facts.

          • BionicMe says:

            The banks were actually defrauded because they have the same type crooks as the giudices facilitating fraud. That simple. I would think that in this time in history we can have a more sophisticated system.

            There’s got to be a common link that was assisting them with doing this under the table. Also, back then many bogus loan terms existed. The real reason why the economy flopped. It is history, go learn it. There are bigger fish to fry in relations to this case.

          • Jennifer says:

            Smh,

            You know the 2001 issue is barred by SOL. Fraud runs from the moment of the offense. That one is outside. So, the w-2 s and false info on that claim is meaningless.

            Most DOJ cases are a negotiated plea.

    • Jewels says:

      Smh – I read your original post. I believe it was a couple weeks ago when the indictment news broke. This one is as brilliantly stated as your prior one.

      I checked out PACER on your recommendation last time. All the info is there in black and white.

      Thanks for a logical opinion!

      • Smh says:

        To Jennifer above this post,

        It doesn’t matter if the statute of limitations has expired. This offense is considered a prior bad act re: rules of admissible evidence. She can’t be convicted of this offense, but it most certainly can and will
        Be used against her in establishing a pattern of fraudulent behavior.

        • Jennifer says:

          I know they want a conspiracy issue. The only link is that it is both Joe and Teresa. You do not show pattern. You must show scheme or plan that is within the conspiracy statute. A mere pattern is not enough. When you look at cases such as; Neder, Pereira, Dowl, Carpenter, etc a mere pattern is not enough. A scheme or plan must be proven. It is a scheme to defraud and not a pattern. Patterns can be disjointed and not intent based. Conspiracy is an intent crime and the scheme to defraud is an element which must be proven beyond reasonable doubt.

          • Smh says:

            I think you’ve misunderstood me. I said nothing about conspiracy. I was referring to the usefulness of the w2 aa evidence. The w2 can be admitted as evidence of a pattern of fraudulent behavior. This evidence can be used to prove the fraud she has been charged with, as well as tax fraud charges. .

            By the way, conspiracy charges in cases like this are exceedingly easy to prosecute.

    • BionicMe says:

      Is this the same loan officer that failed to verify that these incomes were in fact legit? where are the underwriters that are responsible to signing off a loan to someone with bogus credentials? It’s a shame that these type of fools are given the responsibility to manage a very important sector of our economy.

      The Giudices are dead wrong but you best believe they didn’t get by all on their own.

  18. Belle557 says:

    I understand these are very serious charges, and my prayers are with them and those beautiful girls.

    Having said that, and I’m not justifying anything as I don’t have all the facts, but the very thought that the FBI is prosecuting them makes me laugh out loud when companies like AIG scam the American people for billions of dollars in bail out money in an economic crisis, to give each other big fat bonuses and yet no charges…. Honestly, how corrupt is that?

    • Nonna Gabi says:

      Totally agree!

    • Amelia James says:

      There were no charges because AIG did not scam anyone the Gov willing gave them bailout money and giving out large bonuses is not a crime. While ethically and morally wrong still not a crime. Teresa and Joe however did commit crimes and deflecting unto others is not going to change that these people are criminals.

      • They're All Crazy says:

        Thank Obama for handing out our money to AIG.

      • BionicMe says:

        You sure about that? Or you’re just talking to talk?

        • Amelia James says:

          Yes I am sure about that, if you know differently please show me ( being completely serious here)show me where AIG have scammed the American people out of bailout money, or how taking bailout money and then given inappropriate bonus amounts is a crime.

    • Hoot says:

      The joke’s on us, huh?

    • BionicMe says:

      Wanna know why? Because society is too busy eating, breathing and shitt*ng stuff like this (The Giudices case) rather than focusing on their communities.

      This is perfect distraction while the big fishes cash out on billions. Worry about that.

  19. catseye says:

    FINALLY SOMEONE THAT KNOWS WHAT THEIR TALKING ABOUT!!!

  20. Kukulet says:

    Lighten up with the “innocent until proven guilty” misnomer. Every poster here has the right to decide for themselves if the Guidices are guilty or not, and they aren’t dependent on the jury to reach their own conclusion. It may be the wrong conclusion. It may only be based on what the media and not the evidence says, but so what?

    It’s up to the jury to suspend judgment until all the evidence is presented to them in court. But we’re not the jury. We can think and say what we want (it’s called freedom of speech in the USA, and it’s constitutionally protected), and we aren’t oath bound to suspend judgment. We’re not attempting to wrongfully imprison Joe and Teresa, or falsely charge them with crimes. We’re simply posting opinions on a blog.

  21. ginny says:

    Kukulet – Thank you I totally agree. Everyone has the right to vent their opinion. And that’s exactly what it is as no one knows the outcome!

  22. Aloicious says:

    For everyone who’s commenting on whether or not he knew if he was a citizen:

    -you can live legally in the US without EVER becoming a citizen. You can also obtain a drivers license without being a citizen
    -you can leave the US on any passport
    - to re-enter the US, you must provide either a US passport, which only a citizen can have, or a foreign passport as well as either your green card or some type of visa (many of which you need to apply for in advance)
    -when re-entering the US, you go through customs and immigration. If you are a US citizen you go through a different area
    -if you aren’t a citizen you can’t vote, you can’t do jury duty
    -you don’t automatically become a citizen if you marry one. After a certain amount of time in a bonafide marriage, you become eligible to apply for citizenship

    I could go on and on…

    I can understand how people who have been American citizens only since birth wouldn’t know this information. But, anyone who has immigrated to the US or is close with people who have would know this information. IMO, there’s no way he didn’t know.

    • Kukulet says:

      Exactly. And like I said before, you have to renew that green card periodically. Even if your resident alien status is rated permanent, the card still needs to be updated every five years or so. There’s no way Joe could live and work here as a resident alien and not know he wasn’t a citizen.

      • lysa says:

        Of course he knew, One question. How many of you have NEVER read your own birth certificate.

      • BionicMe says:

        No it doesn’t need to be updated every 5 yrs if it’s from prior to 9/11 unless you lost it, damaged it, became of legal age and it has no finger print. Only in 2010 the greencard was redesigned for better security features and it is not mandatory to replace but recommended.

    • Masha says:

      You are correct, as a naturalized citizen I can confirm it.

      There is NO way Joe didn’t know he wasn’t a citizen. Period.

    • BionicMe says:

      The reverse is also baffling. The fact that you had to explain the above to people who are citizens is a shame also.

      All guilty of being uneducated about the subject. Learning is half the battle.

  23. Aloicious says:

    For everyone who’s commenting on the citizenship issue:

    -you can live legally in the US without EVER becoming a citizen. You can also obtain a drivers license without being a citizen
    -you can leave the US on any passport
    - to re-enter the US, you must provide either a US passport, which only a citizen can have, or a foreign passport as well as either your green card or some type of visa (many of which you need to apply for in advance)
    -when re-entering the US, you go through customs and immigration. If you are a US citizen you go through a different area
    -if you aren’t a citizen you can’t vote, you can’t do jury duty
    -you don’t automatically become a citizen if you marry one. After a certain amount of time in a bonafide marriage, you become eligible to apply for citizenship

    I could go on and on…

    I can understand how people who have been American citizens only since birth wouldn’t know this information. But, anyone who has immigrated to the US or is close with people who have would know this information. IMO, there’s no way he didn’t know.

    • jary says:

      But Joe has traveled in and out of the US; we watched him to do it, when the whole family went to Italy. He has obtained American Business licenses to open up several businesses, passed or failed. ??????

      • Kukulet says:

        RE: the travel he probably did on an Italian passport/American green (resident alien) card. This is what we’re saying-there’s no way he doesn’t know.

        A resident alien can obtain American business licenses, and own and operate a business in America. They are only prohibited from voting, jury duty, and obtaining an American passport.

        Joe Guidice isn’t a dual citizen, or this wouldn’t be an issue. He’s an Italian citizen with resident alien status in the USA. And he’s known it all along, cause there’s no way he couldn’t have. IOW, he’s lying out his ass.

      • BionicMe says:

        WTF YOU GUYS CAN’T READ???!! Jesus!

        Who said that you need to be US Citizen to do any of what you just mentioned?????????

        As a legal Resident you can travel in and out, and you have the legal right to work in the US (including owning a business)

        WOW!

        it is alarming that people are so misinformed.

        • Aloicious says:

          LOL Bionic – I was trying to put an end to the inaccurate immigration/ naturalization and citizenship comments and assumptions…. Oh well!

  24. jary says:

    Sometimes I think that JPG is that sick, envious, booted out old KIM G. Such projected and horrible hatred towards humanity.

    • jpg says:

      Yes Jary. I’m also Melissa, Joey, Kim, Lisa, Richie, Kathy, Jacqueline, and as I was recently reminded (rhfan ;) ) Al’s mistress.

      I’m a multi-talented, multi tasker. Woot!

      • Salazar says:

        Haha come on fess up jpg who are you really ???

      • RHONJ viewer says:

        I follow these blogs quite often, and I’m always interested in what people have to say.

        While I don’t always disagree with her opinion, I do find it odd that JPG is so harsh, angry and insulting. It may be frustrating to follow a blog where the writer and most of the people commenting are basically pro Teresa, but why bother? I appreciate her point of view on some topics, but I can’t understand the level to which she takes it. I wouldn’t get so angry and nasty at people for disagreeing with me on this. They aren’t personal. Unless they are. I tend to agree with a few of the people here that JPG is Kim G or a close tie to her…

        And, I have to say that I chuckled when someone posted that JPG doesn’t comment on anything other than Teresa and she replied with I’m too busy to follow anything but NJ topics. Too busy? Where do you find the time for ALL of the comments you make on NJ topics. You’re all over this thread!

        I’m sure this will be followed up by a nasty comment from JPG.

        • Salazar says:

          I have seen far nastier comments on here from pro -Teresa fans ,I also only watch the NJ series so of course this is the only one I post on.. and no I am also not one of Melissa’s sisters or Ashley or Jacqueline

        • Estelle says:

          I’ve never seen JPG post one thing that comes even close to 1/10th the nastiness I’ve seen posted by Teresa’s fans.

          Truth be told, I’ve never seen ANY posts from ANY blog I’ve ever read about ANY topic that comes close to 1/10th the nastiness I’ve seen posted by Teresa’s fans. A psychiatrist would have a field day with some of these people.

          I don’t comment on any of the other HW blogs either. I also like all of the NJ HWs EXCEPT Teresa, who I’ll be the first to admit that I loathe. The last time I checked neither of those things were against the house rules.

          Oh, and I’m not any of those people, either.

          • RHONJ viewer says:

            I don’t care who posts on particular threads. I’ve just seen her post over & over & over, and I found it ironic that she doesn’t have time in her life to comment on other franchises, while on this thread ALL THE TIME.

            I also NEVER said that if you aren’t team Teresa you’re one of these people. I actually think J & T are idiots. JPG’s reactions to comments and opinions seem more aggressive than others. I wouldn’t be as snappy and cutting as she has been in an argument or debate about a freakin tv show! If it was personal, it would be different. Hence the reference to Kim G or some other personal tie to the situation.

  25. I Can Read Good says:

    Are these people seriously adults? “I didn’t know I wasn’t a citizen.”?? Grow up, seriously.

  26. Beachiest says:

    It is true that you are innocent until proven guilty, but 39 counts of fraud and racketeering do not come up out of thin air.

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